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julianphillips November 21, 2008 10:31 AM

I think the answer is 'yes', bearing in mind - as inferred in your last paragraph - that only a few years ago, the question might have been "Can Porsche get away with making an SUV?"

RobotBoogie November 21, 2008 10:34 AM

I don't understand how brands get so cipered into fixed styling points or engineering solutions - a BMW must have a Hoffmeister kind, a Porsche must have a flat four engine, etc. More of what defines a brand should surely be its approach - and if Porsche can make a diesel engine that works as well as petrol one or better, then why not?

Samiur Rahman SHAH November 21, 2008 10:37 AM

It was the 924/944/968 that once saved Porsche from death. If the Cayenne can do it as well, why not. As long as it drives good and "feels" like a Porsche, (and it means the continued existence of a proper sports-car manufacturer) a diesel Cayenne makes absolute sense.

manicm November 21, 2008 10:42 AM

There's just one problem - the BMW X5 and X6 which are arguably better cars than the Cayenne, and without a diluted brand image.

I would take a diesel X6 over this Cayenne any day.

TegTypeR November 21, 2008 10:42 AM

You are right about a marque's character not being solely defined by the engine.  To me it is about the engineering, handling and quality of the marque.

In the case of the Cayenne, lets look at the base ingredients......

(now) VW engine, (majority) VW developed chassis, Porsche styling.  

Does it drive like a "proper" Porsche? Nop.  Has it got the character of a Porsche? Nop.  Quality?  Just.

At least in the days of the 924 (Porsche developed, engineered and built - VW engine), the correct ingredients were there.  It drove like a Porsche, felt like a Porsche and was a Porsche.

I'm sorry, this Cayenne is a step too far.  It is nothing more than badge engineering, in exactly the same as a Sharanalaxyhambra is!

W124 November 21, 2008 10:42 AM

I Suppose that if the Cayenne isn't a proper Porsche so it matters little what engine it has.  I'd love to drive a Boxster with a light four cylinder turbodiesel in it.  Even more an Elise with the VW group 1.4 TD lump.  Imagine the economy/handling/speed equation on that.

Thing is, little petrol motors have come on so far.  I'm really excited by the four cylinder Boxter - reminds me of a 968 I once had - brilliant engine, absolutely brilliant car.  Sadly destroyed.  Will Porsche use a derivative of the apparently excellent new 2 litre Audi engine?

The little VW roadster is going to be amazing I think - Imagine the 1.4 TSI engine and 7 speed DSG in a little 2 seater.  Perfect car for the times.  I'd order one now if I wasn't so broke...

I think the thing with the Cayenne is the utterly bankrupt concept - Perhaps it might work with the diesel push in the states but it's senseless in modern Europe.  I'd much rather see a Porsche MPV than a SUV.  That would really put the cat among the pigeons.

Cheltenhamshire November 21, 2008 11:14 AM

I think yes Porsche can make a diesel engined vehicle.  But the Cayenne is not a Porshce and the diesel version is the worst (although will probably become the best seller) of the lot.  

All it is in a Toerag with a nasty face.  

scrap November 21, 2008 11:49 AM

The controversy over the old 924 family seems so quaint now.

The Cayenne is a travesty, pure and simple. But the diesel is at least the right engine for it - arguably, in engineering terms, the Derv Cayenne is more acceptable and "Porsche" than its petrol driven sisters.

nicfaz November 21, 2008 2:15 PM

Briefly, amazed the question is being asked - it's only the odd internet forum ranter, some senior car industry figures or car journo's that think it is an issue at all - the public just buys them.  BMW has understood this for years and quietly gets on with selling zillions of diesel performance saloons to happy punters whilst the rest of the car industry simply fails. Jaguar was a great example of a firm who agonized over it and lost thousands of sales then were ultimately too late sorting it out (e.g. the X-type).  Now Jaguar's best selling models are diesels and their directors and car journalists should hang their heads in shame for believing in the nonesense and perpetuating it still.  

Samiur Rahman SHAH November 21, 2008 3:07 PM

Just imagine, we're getting sizzly about a diesel Cayenne now. Wait a decade or so, and Porsche will come up with something even "worse". Then we'll say that the diesel Cayenne wasn't such a bad idea after all...

theop November 21, 2008 3:41 PM

Of course. For many, diesels are a better solution than any petrol when used to tow heavy SUVs like the Cayenne - what effectively are trucks with car-like behaviour. You need torque and economy as much as possible.

I think Porsche is running along with the times, and dieseling up on useless Goliaths such as their Cayenne is the best thing it can do short of pulling the plug altogether... Things like Rangies supercharged etc are dead. You 'll see it in Land Rovers'  massive fall from grace to come in the next year. Porsche is going in very cheaply as all the diesel solutions & set up , tooling atc is already made (for the Touareg - lol Toerag as somebody mentioned). Their problem of selling it at such times is another one..especially as competiotion will come internally from Audi and VW... I can only think that the Cayenne should handle a hell of a lot better to justify the deficit of its ugly face and butt...

david RS November 21, 2008 4:55 PM

Porsche : stop the 911!

Sell us lorries.

The Diesel is good to warm a house, not for sports cars or a sports brand like Porsche.

Bad days...

No Cayenne!

No Cayenne TDI!

No Cayman TDI!

No Boxster TDI!

No 911 TDI!

dillonsamben November 21, 2008 5:57 PM

When I read a long time ago about Porsche planning to build a diesel I thought brilliant and then they took their major share in VW, better still as they now had the worlds leading authorities on Di techniques in their fold.

Just as Audi have done with the TT, Porsche can surely now do the same with several of their car range as well as of course the Cayenne which is so desperately in need of a good engine, but will they use a reworked ‘Group’ engine or go totally ballistic and build a flat 4/6/8/12 ?

No doubt Porsche already have stripped down a Subaru diesel engine, but with GM in such a state and as Subaru are such a tiddler of a company, could a marriage take over of Subaru be a way to broadening their horizons even further?

Yes I am a total diesel die hard, but I was once an absolute petrol head !

Brooklands November 22, 2008 1:34 PM

A diesel in a 4x4 is not a problem, even for a Porsche.  A diesel in their sports cars would be a serious mistake.  Their brand image would be badly tarnished if the sports cars were to be fitted with a diesel.

Audi get away with it with the R8 because they are not top level prestigious like Porsche, despite what enthusiasts of the Audi brand might say.  Audi are just rebodied VW's and Skodas anyway (not my words, but the words of the VW boss).

Dan McNeil November 22, 2008 9:23 PM

<p>"Can Porsche get away with making a diesel?"</p>

<p>Well, if they can get away with designing, making and then flogging a *** ugly piece of garbage like the Cayenne, I'm sure that even a diesel 911 would be a cinch</p>

Quattro369 November 22, 2008 11:12 PM

They would have got alot more respect if they had actually made their own diesel engine, rather than just taking one off the VW shelf. They havent even bothered to raise the power output.

austy November 23, 2008 4:17 PM

We are talking about on a car by car basis the most profitable car company in the world.In real terms a company has to move with the times,and in this envoirnment of the "tree hugger" it makes sense to have a diesel powerplant.Jaguar fitted a diesel not so many years ago and this was seen as a great move to help revive a flagging brand,and remember ford diesels are fitted to these cars.I think Porsche will make its diesels appealing to a different buyer who would never dream of buying a large petrol suv and therefore increasing its market share in the future..