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Mon
Sep 01 2008

Land Rover - the good old days

James Ruppert

So Land Rover are going on a four day week.

LR2Haven't we been here before? I've been doing rather a lot of thinking and writing about the dark, grim days of the 1970s.

I've been musing about power cuts, petrol rationing and Red Robbo because my new book, The British Car Industry - Our Part in its Downfall, will be out a couple of weeks and I hope to shamelessly plug it over the coming months - the ideal Xmas present for you and your loved one - before Autocar gets fed up and sacks me.

The parallels between the early 1970s and now are quite startling and, yes, I know that it was an Edward Heath-inspired three-day, rather than four-day week. We certainly have the same external factors making our economy a bit depressed, which includes Middle Eastern conflicts and rising fuel prices. But just as our government didn't really help matters back then by corralling UK car makers into one big unhappy family called British Leyland, politicians have been meddling again.

Land Rover cite the lowering of demand for the sort of vehicles they are famous for because the government, their advisors and pet focus groups have all indentified Land Rovers as ugly, CO2-unfriendly beasts and then gone on to retrospectively tax them to the hilt.

Land Rovers is what we are good at, and the world likes them too, but unless it is a Hybrid, or completely battery powered, which would get a Defender no further than the end of your street, it is enemy. The government seemed to overlook the fact that the people who make them have proper jobs rather than being outreach community co-ordinators. For the moment anyway. And for a short-term enviro-feelgood factor they are willing to let them go to the wall.

Today it's a four-day week, then it will be three days, followed by the silence as the factory shuts. Here is the second great downfall of British manufacturing and we are watching it happen and doing nothing about it.

 

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About James Ruppert

Used to sell BMWs, but he's no yuppie; has a '64 Mini Cooper in his garage and a '57 BSA Bantam in his house. Has bought and sold hundreds of used cars, and he isn't finished yet.

Comments

jerry99 September 1, 2008 12:24 PM

Its not all down to the politicians.

If Land Rover still made a basic utilitarian vehicle (perhaps with extra sound proofing and crash protection) it would still have the market that it allowed the Toyota and the Land Cruiser to take over internationally.

Turning Land Rovers into fashionable SUVs no doubt made sense to the bean counters and the bankers but as a long term proposition was always risky.

W124 September 1, 2008 12:42 PM

Hybrid/electric powertrains must be well useful off road though.  Full torque available from the off has got to be ideal - The problem with Land Rover is the same as it was in the 70's - the cars are unreliable and they cane fuel.  This absurd obsession with making every car fully capable in the rough will be the death of Land Rover - it is not related to the survival of the company at all.  Pure bloody-mindedness if you ask me. It's not too late to knock up a freelander based, two wheel drive utility van like the Berlingo and, while we're at it, why is the LR Sport not just rear wheel drive.  People do not drive them off road - it would wipe out the competition in a stroke and bring the Co2 right down - I suspect if Land Rover were brave enough to end this madness the next generation Porsche and Merc SUV's would follow the trend.

I must confess to having not thought this through very far - just woke up - no coffee as yet but really, why? Is off road capability such a huge deal?  

James Ruppert September 1, 2008 12:53 PM

I agree with the posters so far in that Land Rover are far from blameless and I would not buy a current generation model based on what owners tell me and the amount of time they spend in service reception. I like the Berlingo approach that would be clever and attractive. Certainly Land Rover backed off from simply providing the farmer's friend so that we got Fourtraks and Hi Luxes which indeed benefit from not breaking down. It is significant that all the farmers local to me have Series 3 workhorses and Toyota Landcruisers. Just wanted to make the point that the government don't help...

coolGav September 1, 2008 1:58 PM

The RR Sport isn't a sporty vehicle, and all that weight can't be helping. If Land Rover are to successfully diversify, then why not look at Subaru, and their capable 4WD cars. Commercial vehicles could be a winner, but when they were Ford owned, that wasn't going to happen.

To me, Range Rovers, Sports, Discos and Freeloaders are little more than fashion accessories for many, and fashions have moved on. The development money should have been spent on the Defender, making it more comfortable, reliable and innovative.

W124 September 1, 2008 2:10 PM

A Freelander stripped right out - steel wheels, front or rear wheel drive (or keep it as it is if it's cheaper to leave it) - aircon (not climate) and MP3 as standard in the UK? - no other options - limited colours

Knock up a fully stripped, Africar (what happened to the Africar? Anybody know?) version for developing economies

Come to think of it - The Roomster/Berlingo/Kangoo axis don't really go far enough - they should all offer a recession model with no options ( aircon and MP3 standard - got to be realistic) in flat colours with just one engine choice - the smallest diesel.  In fact I can't believe they don't already.

The present government know the policy on C02 is madness - they are just to scared to put the tax onto petrol - the initial point is spot on really because the British car industry does make big, heavy vehicles and they consequences of government policy will be very severe for LR and Jaguar - luckily they belong to Tata...

There's no such thing as a retrospective tax - It's just theft.  

No Journo September 2, 2008 11:03 AM

Yes you are shamelessly plugging your book.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that in the 3 largest countries in the world. Those being Russia, India and China. Land Rover product is selling more and more each year. They're selling 10 times the number of vehicles they sold in the 70's and they no longer breakdown. I wasn't around in the 70's but based on you over looking some of those most basic facts I won't be reading your book and nor should anyone else!!!!

James Ruppert September 2, 2008 11:11 AM

Thank you for your kind comments. If Land Rover sales were that great there would be no 4 day week would there? Ultimately production could be transferred abroad and I certainly don't like the idea of that. At least borrow The British Car Industry Our Part in its Downfall from the library. You might learn something....James

W124 September 2, 2008 11:33 AM

Isn't everyone selling far more cars in Russia, China and India? Land Rover would have to be going some to post falling sales in these markets.  I reckon they will manage it if they don't get the reliability sorted the way Jaguar have.  I know a couple of people with recent LR product and they report untold breakdowns and minor niggles - I know that's too small a sample to make a conclusion from but the cars seem prone to problems.  Have not the army stopped using them as well?  There is probably another reason for that but there has been talk of the unreliability of Defenders (and Hummers for that matter) causing all sorts of problems for troops in the field.  Especially as they are up against the Hi-Lux and the Land Cruiser...

No Journo September 2, 2008 1:40 PM

The 4 day week is largely a result of capacity issue in the global market take a look at what all the other car makers are up to. No-one talking about striking and people have even signed contracts to help boost capacity at a sister Jaguar facility. If Land Rover sales are down a few % points have you seen GL X5 X6 figues!!!!!!

As for Land Rovers for the military they haven't bought substantial numbers for years. Road side bombs have pretty much killed off the use of this type of vehicle and nothing else.

Have you been to IRAQ or AFGANISTAN? The air is thick with sand all of the vehicles breakdown its a fact of that particular combat arena.

Regarding your book. I've already written to my local coucil requesting that they don't line the pockets of someone so negative about the future of the British Car Industry.

Realone September 2, 2008 2:13 PM

James you raise a good point. So many Series 3's survive not because they were well built (they definetely were not!) but because they are simple and cheap to repair. Exactly what a farmer or soldier needs. Those days are gone for LR. The mass global market (which LR needs to survive) demands much more and the cost to manufacture Defender in the UK too high (even a simple version).

The Santana PS10 is significantly cheaper than a Defender and is what would have been the LR Series 4.....You don't get air bags (but you do get a 'collapsible steering wheel'), ABS, hill decent control, .....blah blah blah.

The point is does LR really need Defender anymore? A question that Ford must have asked when the Transit engine went in.

I'm worry about the Defenders future with Tata. Remember the Gurkha?

James Ruppert September 2, 2008 2:31 PM

Good points Realone, the Satana is a version I had forgotten about, plus the Tatas are the single grimmest 4 x 4s I have ever seen. Also I agree that building cheap Land Rovers or anything here is not very viable anymore which obviously explains the push upmarket. I find it all rather sad really.

noluddite September 2, 2008 8:08 PM

It's not just the Government which is penalising 4x4 ownership. Whilst some will have been put off by tax disc inflation, the London congestion/parking charges, fuel prices and the out-of-control socialist anti-car bigots have also played their part. Land Rover abandoned its core market for a more fickle, fashion-driven one, and is paying the price now that the fashion is fading. Anyone with a brain could foresee this except, as in the BL days, the senior management (egged on by the City), who put short-term profits ahead of long-term strategy. Land Rover as a manufacturer of proper, respectable 4x4's died a long time ago. I have no fondness for their current products, nor sympathy for their predicament.

James Ruppert September 2, 2008 9:11 PM

But you should have sympathy for the workers who through no fault of their own may lose their jobs, otherwise yes you are right about fashion and that has not helped their future prospects...

W124 September 2, 2008 9:19 PM

It is sad.  The government we have at the moment don't seem overly worried about the consequences of pressuring Land Rover.  Probably seems small beer to them.  I was watching a terrible film with Micheal Douglas in the other day in which his gold Discovery was featured heavily. Made me realise how antiquated my view of LR is - It is a success as a major international brand - Got to get the quality right though.  I've not been to Iraq or Afghanistan but I've been to enough places to know that Land Rovers are notorious for breaking down.   I wonder why LR dropped out of the military market - The Ridgback seems a fairly simple device - massively better suited to the current military paradigm yes,  but it's still a big tough 4X4 - If anybody does genuinely know please tell me...

James Ruppert September 2, 2008 10:19 PM

I don't think the LR did well in the recent American JD Power which really counts over there, but really the over complex Discos and Range Rovers don't hold a candle to a Landcruiser. I think the military Land Rovers could not be specced up any more to cope with the conditions and Land mines in particular, but I could be wrong on that one....J

W124 September 3, 2008 11:10 AM

I hope LR don't squander the chance they have in the US.  The big Landcruiser is badged a Lexus in the States if memory serves me.  Pretty hard to compete with on reliability.  Certainly the weak dollar must be wreaking havoc as well.  I hope LR have the sense to keep pressing free motors onto the MTV brigade...  I understand the unsuitability of the Defender for the theaters we're currently in but don't really know why they hadn't developed any other option to offer the army - maybe too expensive/unprofitable to do so - I'd really like to know as Land Rover is, at root, military.  

Jaydub September 3, 2008 11:28 AM

Been working with Land Rover now for 16 years and have seen a lot of ups and downs and yes quality has definitely been one of the downs but the new models have come on leaps and bounds with FL2 being regarded as more reliable and well designed than many japanese product. (Its almost boring just seeing these in for routine servicing over what we are used to!) Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Discovery 3 have improved dramatically but technology has been an issue on the early versions which seem to have been resolved now. To be honest the biggest prob with LR are the weights of current products which screw them for CO2 output and MPG, combine this with a communist government and its difficult to say the least!

HOWEVER watch this space, the products on the way are lighter, cleaner, HUGELY desirable and have the investment behind them that Ford neglected.

Oh and don't worry about jobs for the time being, there is some serious recruitment going on right now as JLR delve into some very interesting new fuels.

Keep your Landcrusiers etc, there is about to be turning of the tide very soon!

James Ruppert September 3, 2008 11:30 AM

Oddly enough I do mention the birth of Land Rover in The British Car Industry Our Part in its Downfall, because the basis of the first one was a Jeep of course.

W124 September 3, 2008 12:24 PM

That cheers me up Jaydub.  Can we have a stripped out, recession spec, Berlingo type vehicle?  Otherwise I'll have to replace the old Merc with a Roomster...  Will it forever be LR policy to have every vehicle capable of climbing mountains,  lots of us just drive to school and back.  Great to actually get someone on the inside commenting here.  You can't beat a bit of shameless plugging - Quality! -I'll be putting up some links to I-tunes in the near future (Joke)

James Ruppert September 3, 2008 12:31 PM

I like the sound of all that Jaydub, if that's all true then there is hope...I suddenly feel a lot better if this is all true...J

Jaydub September 3, 2008 2:27 PM

Now the Ford chain around its neck has gone, the company seems to have a spring in its step. Tata seem to mean business and the passion witnessed so far gives us confidence to look forward with the investment. I am in two minds at the moment, on one hand annoyed that the government has given us such a handicap but also look at the LRX as an example as what is to come and feel as though LR will rise to the challenge.

Would love to say there will be another model with low spec and cheap price W124 but don't think that will happen, but hey with used examples as cheap as they are today I think anyone can nab a bargain right now!

Time for a new government I say.

W124 September 3, 2008 2:45 PM

I think that's a foregone conclusion...

I reckon a trick is being missed with the cheap, tough, low spec cars though - Use the colour palette of the old, classic Land Rovers  - make a point of it - Steel Wheels - Sell loads -

Just a thought

Jaydub September 3, 2008 3:28 PM

Think you might have something there W124 but it would need a donated platform to be viable and I don't think we want to get involved in those Tata things, it could only damage the brand if we end up with a 4x4 City (Land) Rover...

W124 September 3, 2008 6:14 PM

Tricky - I know very little about engineering (as you may have guessed) - branding is more my thing - Is there not something somewhere in Fiat given the rumored tie in with Jaguar? - there's a thought.  I must say that this market is clearly huge and growing worldwide and I reckon a cheap Land Rover could wade right in - From a marketing point of view Land Rover is in an interesting position. Most car companies have to use the cars at the top of their ranges to sell the ones at the bottom, LR is unique in being in a position to do the opposite.  It's a brand with rugged, tough (and military) associations at it's core.  Loads of simple, indestructable, RELIABLE, sub-Freelanders charging about the place (be it here or Harare) will only support the brand, however luxury it becomes...

Sorry - I got a little carried away there - too many pitches over the years...

Jaydub September 3, 2008 7:40 PM

I can see exactly where you are coming from and appreciate your understanding of branding. Now I wonder what could be done with that Sedici thing Fiat has...

W124 September 3, 2008 9:33 PM

What about the Panda 4X4 platform?  (or preferably the next one which is bound to be bigger and might not be done with Ford) I know it sounds daft at first but if you got the styling/colour just right (like the 500 and the Mini - absolutely crucial) and used a LR tuned Multijet 1.3 or 1.6 (and the T-Jet 1.4 for petrol markets) you would provide the right car at the right time for the right price.  Might help massively with the Euro C02 situation. Those Panda 4x4's are something else - I've seen them in Italy in places I'd hesitate to take a mountain bike.  The mechanicals are very tough. Might be a bit small though...

Latebreaker September 11, 2008 9:21 AM

Even though shifts have been cut and thats not evey week. I work for LR. The workers still come to work and get paid just not on the production line.

Its not just LR that are cutting back on volumes, take alook at Toyota, Renault(who are getting rid of 6000 people) and even Bently. The current state of the ecomony is affecting the whole car industry.

Have no fear hybrids will be here by 2012-2013.

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